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theyellowhobbitMichoel
February 14th, 2006 14:30
10
This is a serious question, not intended to be patronizing or funny: Does anyone have a thought as to why the most interesting and comment inspiring writing in this blog’s short existence has been written by women? I have a thought but I’d like to hear someone else's thoughts.
Rachel Adler
February 14th, 2006 15:35
12
Michoel-
My guess is that we’re used to hearing male perspectives on Judaism. All halachic literature, most mussar literature, and most explanations of the Torah [the latter 2 at least until recently] have been written by men. The “women’s experience” is not the norm, and sometimes we take for granted that everyone thinks and feels the same way as us.
Living a Torah-observant life as a woman, especially a BT woman, is very different from living a Torah-observant life as a man. There are many issues [deemed “women’s issues”] that come up because of a woman’s lack of obligation in specific mitzvot, and because of the role that she is supposed to fulfill.
At least for me, many of the issues that I’m having in my teshuva would not be so relevant if I were male. I think the transition to frumkeit might be harder for women in general, although I obviously can’t know that for a fact.
Therefore, us women may be offering a unique perspective here. I don’t know why my posts in particular draw so many comments; perhaps it is because I am a more liberal Jew than the vast majority of people here on the site, and therefore a lot of you tend to disagree with me.
Or maybe we’re all just good writers. :)
On another note- this is the 7th year in a row that Ive worn all black clothing for Valentine's day. I started the tradition during freshman year of high school, when I also wore a necklace made out of candy hearts that said "whatever" on them. Unfortunately the necklace broke, and they stopped making the whatever hearts, so I could never replace it. Otherwise I'd probably be wearing it today.
**Edit** Celine called me to wish me a happy Valentine's Day, and she, too is wearing all black, in honor of me. :)
I'm also mashing in 20 minutes, which means I'll get a lot of chocolate covered strawberries! They run out quickly, so I'll be beating the dinner rush.
Year #2 in which I mash on Valentine's day/the day in which we have a Valentine's day meal in Hillel.
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Posts
Date: 2006-02-14 01:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-02-14 02:03 pm (UTC)I heard a rabbi once claim that women "belong" in the home because of Issur Begged Ish. That's a conscious decision to go far beyond the claims of halacha into the area where "Torah" is nothing more than a weapon to club those around you with.
Re: Posts
Date: 2006-02-14 02:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-02-14 02:23 pm (UTC)Re: Posts
Date: 2006-02-14 02:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-02-14 02:26 pm (UTC)By the way, there is no "beged ish" prohibition. It's kli gever and beged isha. That's the pasook.
And how the heck is "everything outside of the house" "beged ish"?????????
no subject
Date: 2006-02-14 02:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-02-14 02:32 pm (UTC)and yeah, that's my point.
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Date: 2006-02-14 03:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-02-14 03:19 pm (UTC)Happy Valentine's Day!
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Date: 2006-02-14 05:05 pm (UTC)In terms of being in the house, I could be an evangelical christian and be in the house, or a good muslim woman and be in the house and raise the kiddies to pray to God and whatever. The house isn't intrinsically Jewish the way that shul is.
Re: Posts
Date: 2006-02-14 05:12 pm (UTC)As Jewish woman, I can now eat treif, shop on shabbat, go to sleep early on seder night, pass on the chanuka candles, not bother with megilla reading,, fail to give charity or return lost property, be cruel to animals, sleep in too late to pray,speak lashon hara, skip kiddush on shabbat, so long as I bake bread once a week, don't sleep with my husband (if/when married) during and after my period, and light candles once a week.
thanks for letting me know!
no subject
Date: 2006-02-14 05:23 pm (UTC)The chocolate covered strawberries weren't as good this year. The chocolate was grainy :(
Re: Posts
Date: 2006-02-14 05:26 pm (UTC)Re: Posts
Date: 2006-02-14 05:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-02-14 05:31 pm (UTC)if you have serious questions and doubts, i suggest you speak to your local orthodox rabbi.
Re: Posts
Date: 2006-02-14 06:08 pm (UTC)My post was in no way intended as an attack on a way of life you hold dear. Observant Judaism is something beautiful and important to me as well. While neither of us are rabbis, it is still valuable to understand the rules of our tradition in order to understand what these rules are trying to teach us.
I picked the mitzvot I listed very carefully, as ones that women are specifically obligated in. The rabbis pick out shabbat, pesach, purim, and chanuka as holidays whose time-bound mitzvot women are still obligated in.
There isn't a clearly defined "women's space" in Judaism, you touched on this in your first post as well. Some women might embrace their lack of obligation in certain mitzvot, but it is difficult to claim that Judaism lexpects women to come close to Hashem through emotions, rather than actions, when it obligates them in a lot of actions.
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Date: 2006-02-14 07:04 pm (UTC)I've read the Mars/Venus book, and one of the things I did like about it was Gray's comment in the beginning that it was ok for women to be martians sometimes adn for men to be venusians.
Rather than having serious doubts and questions, I accept/don't accept different beliefs than many orthodox Jews. I disagree with many big beliefs in Judaism, but for me, this is not a problem to fix.
I understand Judaism not as absolute historical truth but as an experience to be lived. That's part of why mitzvot are very important to me, the touchy-feely part won't be there otherwise.
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Date: 2006-02-14 10:17 pm (UTC)Becoming "frum" is very difficult for both genders, for many reasons. On the female side, a lot of it has to do with increased restrictions, which have already been brought up: stuff like kol isha, beged ish/a, etc. On the male side, as tourogal meant to put it (I think), are a lot of increased obligations- stuff like davening 3 times a day, for example. The difference in a college community like this one is public vs. private domain, opinion, and reactions. For women, most of the issues fall into the public domain: you can't sing, for example, because there are a few people out there who will be offended. For men, on the other hand, some may look down on not going to minyan three times a day, but when it's noon and too late for shacharit and too early for mincha, no one cares. For women, singing is still an issue.
As for the assertion about running a house- I've often thought that Hillel in particular (not just Penn Hillel, but it certainly is included) , as well as the Jewish community in general has a particular failing in this regard. I subscribe to the comment of Avi Orlo, the Rabbi at Wash U Hillel. He often comments that Hillel needs to be a 14 year organization, not a 4 year one; that is, Hillel needs to not only prepare you to deal with your 4 years of college but also the 10 or so after. The reason for this is very simple: up through college, there are lots of things for Jews to do in the communal setting (as well as responsibilities when they're home). After they get married and particularly once they have kids, then there's also social links at whatever shul they're at, plus running a household. In between, however- when one is not married- is the hardest time, because we don't really have a place for such people. Sure, you go to the Upper West Side or the Heights to find a shidduch, and if you don't, then there's something wrong with you. Or if you're more secular, you drop off the planet all togther. Granted that you're still in college, but I think this is starting to hit you quite early.
One final word, which will probably really turn this into flamebait: while there are significant halachic issues with regards to "women's mitzvot," there is a tendency to go significantly l'chumra on them, particularly on Kol Isha. My personal opinion is that going l'chumra just to go l'chumra is stupid, and as R' Soloveitchik said, it's assur to be stupid. Then again, I also think that men and women should learn gemara together, so what can I say?
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Date: 2006-02-15 07:49 am (UTC)2. I think that taking on obligations is much easier than giving things up. Shabbas was easy. Kashrut was easy. Tzniut was easy. Not being able to read Torah or lead davening or whatnot is incredibly hard. You don't lose anythingg by adding obligations, except for time and places to eat. But I had to give up a lot. A lot that I wouldn't have had to give up had I been male. I resent that a lot, because I still don't see the value in being a Jewish woman. All that has been said doesn't connect to me. I'd rather have the more rules. I don't want my role to be defined by a husband and kids. I want to be seen for me both in the Jewish sphere and the secular sphere. It's not fair that an Orthodox woman's identity is based on her family. I don't think being in charge of a home is beautiful. It's degrading and patronizing if you [not you
3. There probably is something wrong with me. I don't want a shidduch. I'd much rather marry a guy less religious than me who would keep kashrut and Shabbat and let me sing and stuff than a talmid hacham. Like pulling a
4. I agree with you on the chumra bit. [Doesn't Rambam talk about that?]
Ok. Gotta shower and get to lunch. Will you be there?