Jews- tell me if these footnotes sound ok to you...

[theyellowhobbit]

Judaism has always been an evolving religion, and in the late 19th early 20th century, it started to break into different movements. To give a basic overview of what they now believe/practice:
Reform: Believe that the Hebrew Bible (Torah) was a human-written document, but that it was divinely inspired. They believe the laws given in the Torah and in the oral law (Talmud) are products of their times, and thus are not obligatory to modern Jews. They vary in practice, but most do not observe the dietary restrictions (kashrut), and the prohibitions on doing creative work on the Sabbath and holidays, among other things. Many Reform Jews don’t even know of the existence of many of these laws, and many of them have never met an observant Jew in their lives.
Some Reform Jews are secular, in that they identify as Jewish, but rarely observe any Jewish rituals.
Conservative: Originally the Conservative movement was an offshoot of the Reform movement. They believe that the Torah is written by G-d, but that the oral law is flexible, and subject to change by modern rabbis. They vary in practice to observing all of the commandments, to being Reform in practice.
Orthodox: Orthodox Jews nominally follow all of the commandments in both the Oral and Written law. They believe both to have been given by G-d. I’m an Orthodox Jew, which might give me a slight bias in talking about Rabbi Mike.
To give a true definition of these 3 movements would be beyond the scope of this paper. I hope this is enough context for you to understand Rabbi Mike’s religious background.


Kashrut requires the separation of meat and dairy products. Not only that, but meat and dairy cannot be cooked in the same pots, or served on the same plates, nor can the plates be washed with the same sponge… Jews observe varying degrees of kashrut. Not all the contemporary practices in keeping kosher are actually based on Jewish law. People also have the tendency to be overly stringent on these laws, to avoid inadvertently breaking one, or simply because they don’t actually know all of the rules. And not everyone agrees on the rules. Even I don’t fully understand everything there is to keeping kosher!


The Mishnah and the Gemara are both sources of Jewish law. Originally they were transmitted orally. The Mishnah was believed to be codified in 200 CE, and the Gemara stopped being written around 500 CE, but the editing went on through around 700 CE.
Both of these are Jewish learning institutions in Jerusalem that teach classes in English (as opposed to in Hebrew).


Jewish law requires this document in order for the couple to be considered no longer married, even if they have a civil divorce. Without a get a Jewish woman cannot get remarried, and if she does, all the children she has out of that marriage will be considered bastards, and they cannot marry into the Jewish community for ten generations. A man doesn’t need a get to get remarried according to Jewish law, because polygyny is allowed in the Torah. Subsequent rabbis have issued a decree outlawing polygyny, and there are cases in which a husband cound be considered “bound” to his wife, but usually rabbis are much more lenient in letting men remarry.


There may be more to come...

Comments

[jtersesk.livejournal.com]

Why do you only mention the separation of meat and dairy for kashrut? What about clean/unclean animals?

[sen-ichi-rei.livejournal.com]

because i only mentioned the need for 2 kitchens in my paper, and wanted to explain that. i cna't write everything. it's a footnote. the paper is already 2 pages too long...

[desh]

You know, it was probably a mistake for you to ask my opinion... (-:

I can pronbably think of ten different ways that I'd change the movement description. Just for starters: It's important to emphasize that your descriptions are what the movements "believe", and certainly not what everyone who identifies as a member of those movements believes. Make sure you don't imply that there are only 3 movements (though you don't really). There are lots of other movements, and in particular the most important and overlooked one is "unaffiliated" (which I guess isn't a movement, but it is a very large class of Jews that isn't in any of the above movements). You certainly shouldn't imply that Reform is just one step above secular-and-unaffiliated, and while it may be true that "many Reform Jews don’t even know of the existence of many of these laws, and many of them have never met an observant Jew in their lives," you're implying a lot by including that line in an otherwise short description, and I don't think it belongs there.

Your description of kashrut is overly Orthodox-centric. In particular, I've never met someone who is "overly stringent" to avoid breaking the laws, and who doesn't self-identify as Orthodox. And, for example, I won't mix dairy and meat, but don't really care about separate plates or sponges. But your description is fine if you clarify it as Orthodox and, as a previous commenter mentioned, address other aspects of kashrut besides dairy/meat.

What is "Both of these are Jewish learning institutions in Jerusalem that teach classes in English (as opposed to in Hebrew)."?

As for the get, I'm sure that most Reform rabbis are pretty lenient in letting women remarry too. The Conservative movement officially refuses to conduct the proceedings to officially find someone to be a mamzer. And so on. The agunah problem is a problem, for sure, but not limited to all of Judaism like you imply. (And besides, I didn't think mamzerut went away, even after 10 generations.)

[sen-ichi-rei.livejournal.com]

What is "Both of these are Jewish learning institutions in Jerusalem that teach classes in English (as opposed to in Hebrew)."?
pardes and conservative yeshiva.

Yeah, i know reform lets people remarry. here' i'm talking about if a conservative rabbi lets you remarry without a get, they'll be kicked out of the rabbinate. so i had to explain the significance of a get.

maybe i should post the paper for context, but i can't, since I don't have rabbi mike's permission. but there is a context for all fo these, and i'm just trying to provide the minimal amount of info needed to understand the conversation. i'm not trying to explain judaism, i'm trying to explain rabbi mike's job. unfortunately for me, that requires a lot of explaining Judaism...

[tobeginagain.livejournal.com]

I'm going to piggyback on desh's post because I agree with most everything he said. So consider all of his statements ditto'd. Here's my slight additions.

many of them have never met an observant Jew in their lives.
This statement seems both out-of-place and unnecessarily accusatory (and insulting?). You don't have a similar statement regarding Orthodox Jews' interactions with Reform Jews which might be equally valid and possibly just as appropriate.

Some Reform Jews are secular, in that they identify as Jewish, but rarely observe any Jewish rituals.
I find it easier to swallow that "Some secular Jews may be identified by others as Reform, yet they rarely observe any Jewish rituals" if you want to maintain that theme.

Originally the Conservative movement was an offshoot of the Reform movement.
I don't believe that was so. Certainly not in the way that Reconstructionism or UTJ were offshoots of Conservative. Perhaps you could say that the Conservative movement was a reaction to Reform Judaism. I think that's more accurate.

They [Conservative Jews] vary in practice to observing all of the commandments, to being Reform in practice.
I'm somewhat surprised that you included this statement. I know dozens of Reform Jews who observe the commandments, I'd imagine that you do, too. It's an insult to both Reform and Conservative practice to state that the opposite of "observing all of the commandments" is being Reform.

nor can the plates be washed with the same sponge… ... People also have the tendency to be overly stringent on these laws, to avoid inadvertently breaking one, or simply because they don’t actually know all of the rules.
This one amuses me because, from what I understand, the use of separate sponges itself is a way that people are overly stringent and not at all included in the seperate pots/plates category.

Sorry if this was too much/too late/too harsh.

[tourogal.livejournal.com]

Orthodox: Orthodox Jews nominally follow all of the commandments in both the Oral and Written law. They believe both to have been given by G-d.

i believe the word nominally is inappropriate here. i am not ultra-orthodox, and yet, we try to observe everything from length of sleeves and skirts to covering my hair to how we observe Shabbos.

[sen-ichi-rei.livejournal.com]

yeah, but I know Orthodox people who don't follow things like Shomer nagiah for example, or eat treif out. There are varying degrees of observance even among Orthodox Jews. Maybe that means they shouldn't be called Orthodox if they don't keep halacha, but I'm not the one who can make that distinction. for the purpose of this, everyone who identifies as Orthodox is orthodox.

[tourogal.livejournal.com]

so do i and they call themselves "modern orthodox".

[sen-ichi-rei.livejournal.com]

i have no idea. I call myself "modern orthodox" but i don't think that label should imply non-observance of halacha, since many modern orthodox jews do keep everything. I don't know. This paper is getting way to complex for what it was supposed to be doing...

[sen-ichi-rei.livejournal.com]

oh, i misread that last comment.

but i still think that the label MO shouldn't imply non-observance, kind of like "Reform" shouldn't imply secular. it's not so nice to the people who are MO who are observant or Reform and do care about their Judaism. they give us a bad name...

[levana-b.livejournal.com]

the concept of MO implying hypocrisy is a new one. Modern Orthodox used to imply people who observed halacha and also lived in the outside world. It's getting harder and harder to do that so people choose. However, we don't say those who are...less stringent in some areas of halacha aren't orthodox because the three denominations aren't about what you do, but what you think. If you believe Torah is of divine origin and that both the written and oral law is still incumbent upon us today and that halacha is non-negotiable, that's pretty much what makes you orthodox. Not whether or not you shake a wo/man's hand (pick your gender).
There are really two sortings. Dogma determines the denominations and actions determine religious and non-religious (dati and chiloni - everything makes more sense in hebrew). There's generally a clear correlation between the former and the latter, but you don't know everything about someone's observances from their denomination. You can make educated guesses, sure.
And thus we have Modern orthodox vs. modern Orthodox. Don't you just love Judaism?

[desh]

While I don't really disagree with anything you said, don't you think it's easier if people just describe their own practices as best as they can, rather than trying to squeeze them into pre-defined labels?

(Of course, that's no help for these footnotes, but still.)

[levana-b.livejournal.com]

Right, but if you start with predefinited labels and then modify them, it's more comprehensible than trying to create an individual name for everyone.

[desh]

When people agree on what the labels mean, and when there are no connotations to those labels that make people uncomfortable, you're right.

[masteraleph.livejournal.com]

I'd disagree that it's getting harder and harder to both observe halacha and also live in the outside world. If anything, it's getting easier- observe me going up to Brookline, staying at the Courtyard Mariott there, which not only includes an easily accessible staircase but also several "Sabbath Rooms," which have mechanical keys incuded. Or the number of items that are hechshered in your local grocery store. When you can buy kosher gum at a Wal-Mart or Farm Fresh in Norfolk, VA, you know that things are getting easier to observe.

The difference is that what people are calling "halacha" is not actually halacha. Instead, people consistently go l'chumra on everything, building new fences and then setting those as posts when there's no reason to do so. It's the phenomenon of "I'm not 100% certain that this is mutar, so rather than trying to figure out what I should do, I'll assume it's assur and tell everyone else that too." That's not "Modern orthodox" or even "modern Orthodox." It's stupid.

[levana-b.livejournal.com]

All right, I'll rephrase that. The choices are changing and are less clear cut than they once were. While Kashrut is easier to keep, it's also not a particularly gray area. There are certain things in culture, however, that aren't quite as clear cut as far as halacha is concerned. Also, if there's more to the law than "do this", "don't do that", then you also wind up looking at the world through a different lense. And that's when the outside world starts to conflict. It's not so much actions that are problematic, but morals and attitudes. So do you follow the halachic perspective, the modern one or try to merge them? And how?

And, I agree with you, something has to be done about the chumra of the month club. However, that's less than relevant when it comes to observance, because you don't need to go l'chumra to be a halachic jew (see gemara for details). That's relevant in the dogmatic distinctions - what do you put foremost, Convenience or Halacha? Out of curiousity, what did this rant have to do with mO vs Mo?

[sen-ichi-rei.livejournal.com]

1. well that's actually meaning me, as a former reform jew, having never met an orthodox person till high school. but yeah, i'll edit it out.
2. fixed
3. ok. how do you explain the levels of conservative observance to a non-Jew? "They vary in practice to observing all of the commandments, to observing none of them. Practice varies significantly from the ideals of the movement." better?
4. yeah. i learned separate sponges at penn. everyone does it [except desh apparently] and takes it as a given. i'm blending law and practice, and i know that, and that's because i myself don't quiet know the boundary. i could state that. the overly machmir thing is a bit judgemental. after all, who am i to say "overly"?