Jonfest

[theyellowhobbit]

Jon and I talked about religion. I suppose he's the hardest person to justify my Orthodoxy to, so it was good to get this out of me. I'm still observant after talking to him...


Kitten219: you almost killed me
LoPaan Re: how?
Kitten219: the journaly thingy
Kitten219: till i realized
Kitten219: read my comment
LoPaan Re: huh?
Kitten219: your weird journal entry generator thingy
Kitten219: that said you had an std and were gay and all that fun stuff
LoPaan Re: ooh
LoPaan Re: hehehe
Kitten219: so beware the jewish guilt
LoPaan Re: ha!
LoPaan Re: i'm immune to jewish guilt
Kitten219: no you're not!
Kitten219: you can;t
Kitten219: it's genetic!
LoPaan Re: well being jewish gone atheist has its privelages
Kitten219: darn you!
Kitten219: waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
LoPaan Re: heh
LoPaan Re: i think the one person who can do a slight guilt trip is grandma
LoPaan Re: but shes a pro
Kitten219: true
Kitten219: yeah
LoPaan Re: you got nothing rookie
Kitten219: i'm in training
LoPaan Re: right
LoPaan Re: rookie
Kitten219: your mom's a rookie
LoPaan Re: no, i'm just immune to her
Kitten219: darn you and your stupid immunity
Kitten219: so if i wasn't all jewish, would i be immune, too?
LoPaan Re: i would think so
LoPaan Re: it really comes with the cynic that atheist allows
Kitten219: or G-d makes people feel guilty
Kitten219: otherwise why would anyone pray?
Kitten219: or not eat bread?
Kitten219: religion operates on guilt
Kitten219: so you have some sort of recessive gene that makes you immune to guilt
Kitten219: and therefore immune to religion
Kitten219: i'm so smart!
LoPaan Re: good point
Kitten219: thanks
LoPaan Re: well i would say it depends on the religion
LoPaan Re: catholicism for example, relys on fear
Kitten219: true
Kitten219: judaism relies on both, but more guilt since G-d stopped doing miracles. [or in your case "miracles"...or "G-d" for taht matter]
LoPaan Re: i guess
LoPaan Re: you and your wacky "religion"
Kitten219: yes. me and my wacky religion
Kitten219: and my wacky "cleaning for pesach"
Kitten219: and my wacky "vacuum is broken"
Kitten219: well "my"
Kitten219: not mine per se
oPaan Re: and your making the kitchen all jewlike
Kitten219: i never asked them
LoPaan Re: well they had to
Kitten219: they did that under their own volition
LoPaan Re: otherwise you couldn't eat there right?
Kitten219: i would have eaten, just only kosher meat and cheese and anything non-kosher I wouldn't touch. it's not true of everywhere, but you're allowed to break certain rules for "shalom bayit" [peace at home]
LoPaan Re: are you still going out to eat?
Kitten219: if i eat vegitarian
Kitten219: so no chicken or anything
Kitten219: fish would be ok if i liked fish
Kitten219: but since i don't, it doesn't help much
LoPaan Re: so basically you can only eat french fries and pasta?
LoPaan Re: and would you have butter on the rolls?
Kitten219: and blooming unions
Kitten219: and yes
LoPaan Re: mmkay
Kitten219: i could have salad...
Kitten219: and desserts
Kitten219: oh wow
Kitten219: i could live off of chocolate mousse cake
LoPaan Re: that would be real nice for the complection
Kitten219: it's complexion
Kitten219: and baka
LoPaan Re: whatever
Kitten219: yeah
Kitten219: so are you ok with the fact that i'm all "jewishy" now?
LoPaan Re: yeah
LoPaan Re: and i'm not thrilled about the kitchen being all kosher, but i'm over it
LoPaan Re: i'll only actually have a problem if my dad ever gets on my case for Jeni not being jewish
LoPaan Re: then i
LoPaan Re: i'll be mad
Kitten219: i can imagine
Kitten219: i mean if things had worked out with mean and sean, we'll sean's not jewish
Kitten219: but i guess kinda fortunately they didn't
Kitten219: but that would have been fun
Kitten219: explaining an atheist ex mormon to dad
LoPaan Re: umm... wouldn't there be a problem in the fact that your all orthodox and religious and all?
Kitten219: i became orthodox more after sean
Kitten219: before i was just shomer shabbas
Kitten219: and i probably woudn't have gone that way so much if things had worked out
LoPaan Re: what is this "shomer"?
LoPaan Re: umm... isn't basing your religion off of your current crush a little silly?
Kitten219: no
Kitten219: i'm not actually
Kitten219: more like if i had been with sean, i would have hung out around my orthos less
Kitten219: cause i wouldn't want to tell them i was dating a non-jew
Kitten219: i sort of decided the ortho thing in israel
LoPaan Re: isn't that treating religion like a club?
Kitten219: no
Kitten219: and it isn't
Kitten219: i physically do not feel comfortable in rjc
Kitten219: i cannot go back
Kitten219: if it was just who i liekd better, i would still be able to pray at nfty
Kitten219: and i can't
LoPaan Re: why not?
Kitten219: because they don't do teh full service
Kitten219: and i feel the need to pray a complete service 3 tiems a day
Kitten219: 1 is long, the otehr 2 though are 10-20 minutes
Kitten219: except on shabbat
LoPaan Re: thats fair, but what if you meet a wonderful guy who likes you and all, but isn't jewish?
Kitten219: then he'd have to be ok with me keeping shabbat and and a kosher home and rasing the kids jewish, and in traditional judaism,if a jewish girl marries a non jewish guy, the kids are tsill jewish
Kitten219: however, i'm not supposed to marry a non jew
LoPaan Re: so would you?
Kitten219: i'd hope he would convert for me
Kitten219: otherwise
Kitten219: i dunno
LoPaan Re: i see
Kitten219: i fell like the way i am right now, i'm primarily meeting jews
LoPaan Re: i se
Kitten219: penn is uberjewish
LoPaan Re: yeah
Kitten219: as is israel
LoPaan Re: yeah i noticed
Kitten219: brb
LoPaan Re: yes, yes israel is uberjewish
Kitten219: lol
Kitten219: also
Kitten219: i believe in G-d a lot
Kitten219: and that G-d has reasons for everything
Kitten219: and had a reason for sean and me not working out
Kitten219: specifically so i wouldn't be prevented from being orthodox
Kitten219: which is something i've wanted to be for a while
Kitten219: i realized it more in israel, like i'd be comfortable as an ortho even away from epnn
LoPaan Re: umm... what happens if after college you end up moving to a town that the orthodox temple is full of the elderly, and has a slow boring service?
Kitten219: well i'd probably daven in my room
Kitten219: and i can afford to be selective
Kitten219: if i moved to israel
Kitten219: there'd be lots of shuls
LoPaan Re: ahh
LoPaan Re: true
Kitten219: most orthos live where there are lots of orthos
LoPaan Re: true
Kitten219: community is the only way such a strict religion can survive.
LoPaan Re: yep
LoPaan Re: umm, isn't it a bit hypocritical to be so for a community when you avoid your own parents like the plague?
Kitten219: yes
Kitten219: but oh well
LoPaan Re: maybe you should make an effort to see your parents?
Kitten219: well i kind of can't till summer
Kitten219: they didn't want me home for pesach
LoPaan Re: yes, but what you can do is go on a family vacation for a week
LoPaan Re: well you have school and all
LoPaan Re: and not whine about how family vacations don't involve friends
Kitten219: well fine
Kitten219: i could go
LoPaan Re: i'm not saying you have to or anything
Kitten219: you're using jewish guilt
LoPaan Re: but it would make you less hypocritical
LoPaan Re: am i?
Kitten219: yup
LoPaan Re: or am i using common sense?
Kitten219: nope
Kitten219: jewih guilt
LoPaan Re: i'm not a jew
Kitten219: you still have the guilt
Kitten219: and it's debatable
LoPaan Re: perhaps
Kitten219: you're not a jew religiously
Kitten219: but you will always be jewish
Kitten219: a jewish atheist
LoPaan Re: but i can also try and get all the jew out of me
LoPaan Re: and be counter-jewish
Kitten219: i think you unintentionally gave me your judaism
LoPaan Re: i thought the same thing earlier today
LoPaan Re: over the year you've become really jewish, while i've become really anti-jewish
Kitten219: weren't you always
Kitten219: ?
LoPaan Re: um, yes, but not as much as i am now
Kitten219: what are you doing now more so than before?
LoPaan Re: making jew jokes...
LoPaan Re: and stuff
LoPaan Re: consider the fact that i hang around gabe
LoPaan Re: and a tiny bit of that has rubbed off on me
Kitten219: that makes sense
Kitten219: and i hang out with ocp
Kitten219: and a lot of it has rubbed off on me
LoPaan Re: you don't say
Kitten219: yeah. rachel = obvious
Kitten219: brb have to return a vacuum
LoPaan Re: okay
Kitten219: backness
LoPaan Re: okay
Kitten219: oh yeah, i never answered the shomer question
Kitten219: which shomer do you mean, firstly?
LoPaan Re: there are multiple?
Kitten219: yes, and they're very different
Kitten219: shomer means guardian
Kitten219: so shomer shabbat litterally means guardian of the shabbat
Kitten219: [aka keeping all the laws]
Kitten219: but if you just say "shomer" at penn, people assume you mean "shomer nagiah"
LoPaan Re: which is?
Kitten219: which is not touching members of the opposite sex besides your spouse and close relatives
Kitten219: except maybe handshakes
Kitten219: but it varies
LoPaan Re: no hugs?
Kitten219: no hugs
Kitten219: though it isn;t competely black and white
Kitten219: some people still hug
LoPaan Re: so wait, you can't hug guys?
LoPaan Re: do you?
Kitten219: at the moment i let guys hug me
LoPaan Re: but do you hug back?
Kitten219: but i'm trying to phase it out
Kitten219: it depends
Kitten219: i try not to
Kitten219: but i feel bad
Kitten219: but i feel bad being hugged
LoPaan Re: i see
Kitten219: so optimally, i should tell them not to hug me anymore
Kitten219: it's hard