Reverse Kiruv
Jul. 20th, 2004 11:54 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
theyellowhobbitDavid Heit. I haven't talked to him since after biennial. Intersting kid.
Kitten219: hey
hoosierdubsguy: shalom:-)
Kitten219: what's up? i haven't talked to you in forever
hoosierdubsguy: not a whole lot, how have you been? how's life?
Kitten219: good. i'm in israel right now studying at Pardes
hoosierdubsguy: pardes? do you by any chance know a professor named rabbi cooper?
Kitten219: nope
hoosierdubsguy: poo
hoosierdubsguy: he's a nice guy...met him last summer on a trip to poland and then to israel
Kitten219: ah
Kitten219: well there are some people who teach during the year but not summer
Kitten219: they need vacations
hoosierdubsguy: that's probably him....you having fun in israel?
hoosierdubsguy: yeah they do, teaching is hard work
Kitten219: yeah. it's a lot of fun
hoosierdubsguy: that's awesome, i wish i could be there right now
Kitten219: go next summer on birthright or something
Kitten219: or ma'arva
hoosierdubsguy: i already went on a trip, once you go on an organised trip you become ineligible for birthright
Kitten219: true
Kitten219: but they're lax
hoosierdubsguy: hmm...well, if they let me, it is tempting
Kitten219: if not get an internship or study for the summer
Kitten219: i've had an amazing time learning talmud
Kitten219: and pardes is all pluralistic
Kitten219: it ranges from uberreform to me
hoosierdubsguy: and beyond
Kitten219: well to tell you the truth last session i was one of the more religious students
Kitten219: though this time it'smore diverse
hoosierdubsguy: it goes way beyond even you though...it goes through like orthodox and chasidic and the most observant jew
Kitten219: not chassidic
Kitten219: and i'm orthodox
hoosierdubsguy: hmm....i'll do better research on it then:-)
Kitten219: lol
Kitten219: you didn't know, did you?
hoosierdubsguy: you still looking at becoming a rabbi?
hoosierdubsguy: we haven't talked since....biennial i think...so no, i didn't
Kitten219: um
Kitten219: if by rabbi you mean rebbetzin
hoosierdubsguy: i meant rabbi, but rebbetzin works
Kitten219: yeah
Kitten219: no rabbi-ness for me
Kitten219: rebbetzin means rabbis wife
hoosierdubsguy: i know, i might be a lowly nftyite who has yet to enroll at college (next week! oh yeah!), but i know what a rebbetzin is...my mom's a cantor, remember?
Kitten219: true
Kitten219: but yeah
hoosierdubsguy: why no rabbi?
Kitten219: i'm actually orthodox
Kitten219: cause
Kitten219: women aren't rabbis in the orthodox movement
Kitten219: i would love to teach torah/talmud or something
hoosierdubsguy: you were so intent on going for it, and you'd be a great rabbi if you so choose
Kitten219: but it was because i wanted to live a completely jewish life
Kitten219: and i can do that without being a rabbi
Kitten219: and i stopped feeling comfortable as a reform jew
hoosierdubsguy: true enough...but i still think you would indeed be a very good rabbi if you change your mind
hoosierdubsguy: you have such a devotion to judaism and learning, and a passion for all that being a rabbi entails
Kitten219: all the passion that being orthodox entails
Kitten219: all the halachot...
Kitten219: and i can still lead women's kaballat shabbat
Kitten219: and give d'var torahs
Kitten219: i do more jewish things now than i would as a rabbi
Kitten219: just less leadery
Kitten219: and i never was really a leader
hoosierdubsguy: one does not have to be loud to be a leader
Kitten219: true
Kitten219: but the only thing a rabbi can do in orthodoxy that a lay person can;t is give halachic rulings
hoosierdubsguy: i dunno, i guess i always just saw you as a rabbi, that's all
Kitten219: well you haven't seen me frum
hoosierdubsguy: but you're the community leader, someone people look up to
hoosierdubsguy: not since biennial, no
Kitten219: there ya go
Kitten219: people look up to non-rabbis
hoosierdubsguy: not in th esame way...people look up to a rabbi in the same way that they look up to a teacher or a parent
Kitten219: in reform judaism
Kitten219: in orthodox judaism there are multiple rabbis in the community
Kitten219: and plenty of learned non rabbis
hoosierdubsguy: i know no different, i've been raised as a reform jew, so call me ignorant, but i still feel that a rabbi holds a different place in a community than the learned lay leaders, it's a role that's held in much higher regard
Kitten219: different communities are looked at differently
Kitten219: certainly a rabbi gets a lot of respect
Kitten219: but if i'm in this community, i can;t be a rabbi anyways
Kitten219: nor do i need to be teh most respected person in teh community
Kitten219: i don't need power
Kitten219: i just want everyone to love me
Kitten219: and i can to that by being nice and giving
hoosierdubsguy: but why stop at being a simple lay leader? why not take that extra step?
Kitten219: because i want to be orthodox
Kitten219: don't get me wrong
Kitten219: if i was a male i would be going for smicha
Kitten219: but for me, i get so much out of keeping halacha
Kitten219: and there's so much orthodoxy has to offer
Kitten219: it's like this
Kitten219: think of each denomination as a system
hoosierdubsguy: why let a vagina and a y chromosome stop that dream? your gender should not be a barrier
hoosierdubsguy: er...x chromosome, sorry
Kitten219: last time i checked i havee no y chromosome
Kitten219: lol
Kitten219: because no orhodox raabbi would give me smicha
Kitten219: i would rather be orthodox than be a rabbi
hoosierdubsguy: why not have your cake and eat it too? do what you want, go as far as you can
Kitten219: because the system doesn't work that way
Kitten219: there are some things i can;t choose
Kitten219: orthodoxy like every type of judaism has good and bad
Kitten219: teh good outweighs the bad
Kitten219: and it's the best system for me
hoosierdubsguy: you can choose, we as humans have free will, you can choose what you wish to do with your life, whether it is becoming a rabbi or falling in line with the orthodox faith, the choice is yours
Kitten219: and i choose orthodoxy
Kitten219: the community is what did it
Kitten219: in reform communities, shabbat ends afetr friday night services
Kitten219: here we go to houses for meals
Kitten219: and sing all afternoon
Kitten219: and people learn toegther in chevruta after work
Kitten219: and it's close knit
Kitten219: and i belong
hoosierdubsguy: and study torah and talmud when they're not partying it down
Kitten219: riiiiiight
Kitten219: well
Kitten219: actually
Kitten219: we do party
hoosierdubsguy: (well, to use a loose term)
Kitten219: yeah
hoosierdubsguy: i wouldn't use the term "party it down", but rather gather for meals and song
Kitten219: you just did use the term
Kitten219: lol
Kitten219: we do drink, you know
hoosierdubsguy: it was the most concise term i could think of
Kitten219: we have fun
hoosierdubsguy: it's a tradition to imbibe...we're told on shabbat to drink
Kitten219: it's min-hag
hoosierdubsguy: thank you
Kitten219: and it's purim
Kitten219: not shabbat
Kitten219: shabbat is just kiddush
hoosierdubsguy: we're supposed to drink until we can't tell the difference between haman and mordecai if i remember correctly
Kitten219: yes
Kitten219: but it'snot halacha
Kitten219: whatever
hoosierdubsguy: or is take a drink/shot when you hear the name of haman....or both?
Kitten219: it's just really to drink more than you normally do. you don;t have to get plastered, and i didn;t even drink on purim
Kitten219: it's funny
hoosierdubsguy: you don't seem like the type to drink...at least not often
Kitten219: of all the halachot non-orthodox jews know, it's always the minhag of drinking on purim, which isn;t even required. just a tradition
Kitten219: and you'd be surprised
Kitten219: i have halff a bacardi breezer in my room right now
Kitten219: and i've ben drunk twice this year
hoosierdubsguy: what flavour?
Kitten219: lemon
Kitten219: not that it matters
hoosierdubsguy: i was just curious
Kitten219: see f i were curious about something it would be about the fact that i'm shomer
Kitten219: not what flavor bacardi i have
Kitten219: it's probably already flat
hoosierdubsguy: shomer n'giyah?
Kitten219: lol
Kitten219: yes
hoosierdubsguy: i see
Kitten219: lol
Kitten219: you never would have expected that, right?
hoosierdubsguy: i figured if you were orthodox you were gonna be shomer n'giyah
Kitten219: not all orthodox jews are
hoosierdubsguy: but i figured based on conversation...
Kitten219: lol
Kitten219: i guess i do sound extremist
Kitten219: i really am not
hoosierdubsguy: not extremist, just devoted
Kitten219: ah
hoosierdubsguy: yeah
He sounds like he's disappoined in the fact that I'm not going to be a Rabbi. Let me ask further....
And by the way, Nomi, my Talmud teacher,found out that I can knit, because I do it as a habit, not just for making things, and I'm not using/giving away/selling anything I make till after the 9 days. Rock on!
Kitten219: hey
hoosierdubsguy: shalom:-)
Kitten219: what's up? i haven't talked to you in forever
hoosierdubsguy: not a whole lot, how have you been? how's life?
Kitten219: good. i'm in israel right now studying at Pardes
hoosierdubsguy: pardes? do you by any chance know a professor named rabbi cooper?
Kitten219: nope
hoosierdubsguy: poo
hoosierdubsguy: he's a nice guy...met him last summer on a trip to poland and then to israel
Kitten219: ah
Kitten219: well there are some people who teach during the year but not summer
Kitten219: they need vacations
hoosierdubsguy: that's probably him....you having fun in israel?
hoosierdubsguy: yeah they do, teaching is hard work
Kitten219: yeah. it's a lot of fun
hoosierdubsguy: that's awesome, i wish i could be there right now
Kitten219: go next summer on birthright or something
Kitten219: or ma'arva
hoosierdubsguy: i already went on a trip, once you go on an organised trip you become ineligible for birthright
Kitten219: true
Kitten219: but they're lax
hoosierdubsguy: hmm...well, if they let me, it is tempting
Kitten219: if not get an internship or study for the summer
Kitten219: i've had an amazing time learning talmud
Kitten219: and pardes is all pluralistic
Kitten219: it ranges from uberreform to me
hoosierdubsguy: and beyond
Kitten219: well to tell you the truth last session i was one of the more religious students
Kitten219: though this time it'smore diverse
hoosierdubsguy: it goes way beyond even you though...it goes through like orthodox and chasidic and the most observant jew
Kitten219: not chassidic
Kitten219: and i'm orthodox
hoosierdubsguy: hmm....i'll do better research on it then:-)
Kitten219: lol
Kitten219: you didn't know, did you?
hoosierdubsguy: you still looking at becoming a rabbi?
hoosierdubsguy: we haven't talked since....biennial i think...so no, i didn't
Kitten219: um
Kitten219: if by rabbi you mean rebbetzin
hoosierdubsguy: i meant rabbi, but rebbetzin works
Kitten219: yeah
Kitten219: no rabbi-ness for me
Kitten219: rebbetzin means rabbis wife
hoosierdubsguy: i know, i might be a lowly nftyite who has yet to enroll at college (next week! oh yeah!), but i know what a rebbetzin is...my mom's a cantor, remember?
Kitten219: true
Kitten219: but yeah
hoosierdubsguy: why no rabbi?
Kitten219: i'm actually orthodox
Kitten219: cause
Kitten219: women aren't rabbis in the orthodox movement
Kitten219: i would love to teach torah/talmud or something
hoosierdubsguy: you were so intent on going for it, and you'd be a great rabbi if you so choose
Kitten219: but it was because i wanted to live a completely jewish life
Kitten219: and i can do that without being a rabbi
Kitten219: and i stopped feeling comfortable as a reform jew
hoosierdubsguy: true enough...but i still think you would indeed be a very good rabbi if you change your mind
hoosierdubsguy: you have such a devotion to judaism and learning, and a passion for all that being a rabbi entails
Kitten219: all the passion that being orthodox entails
Kitten219: all the halachot...
Kitten219: and i can still lead women's kaballat shabbat
Kitten219: and give d'var torahs
Kitten219: i do more jewish things now than i would as a rabbi
Kitten219: just less leadery
Kitten219: and i never was really a leader
hoosierdubsguy: one does not have to be loud to be a leader
Kitten219: true
Kitten219: but the only thing a rabbi can do in orthodoxy that a lay person can;t is give halachic rulings
hoosierdubsguy: i dunno, i guess i always just saw you as a rabbi, that's all
Kitten219: well you haven't seen me frum
hoosierdubsguy: but you're the community leader, someone people look up to
hoosierdubsguy: not since biennial, no
Kitten219: there ya go
Kitten219: people look up to non-rabbis
hoosierdubsguy: not in th esame way...people look up to a rabbi in the same way that they look up to a teacher or a parent
Kitten219: in reform judaism
Kitten219: in orthodox judaism there are multiple rabbis in the community
Kitten219: and plenty of learned non rabbis
hoosierdubsguy: i know no different, i've been raised as a reform jew, so call me ignorant, but i still feel that a rabbi holds a different place in a community than the learned lay leaders, it's a role that's held in much higher regard
Kitten219: different communities are looked at differently
Kitten219: certainly a rabbi gets a lot of respect
Kitten219: but if i'm in this community, i can;t be a rabbi anyways
Kitten219: nor do i need to be teh most respected person in teh community
Kitten219: i don't need power
Kitten219: i just want everyone to love me
Kitten219: and i can to that by being nice and giving
hoosierdubsguy: but why stop at being a simple lay leader? why not take that extra step?
Kitten219: because i want to be orthodox
Kitten219: don't get me wrong
Kitten219: if i was a male i would be going for smicha
Kitten219: but for me, i get so much out of keeping halacha
Kitten219: and there's so much orthodoxy has to offer
Kitten219: it's like this
Kitten219: think of each denomination as a system
hoosierdubsguy: why let a vagina and a y chromosome stop that dream? your gender should not be a barrier
hoosierdubsguy: er...x chromosome, sorry
Kitten219: last time i checked i havee no y chromosome
Kitten219: lol
Kitten219: because no orhodox raabbi would give me smicha
Kitten219: i would rather be orthodox than be a rabbi
hoosierdubsguy: why not have your cake and eat it too? do what you want, go as far as you can
Kitten219: because the system doesn't work that way
Kitten219: there are some things i can;t choose
Kitten219: orthodoxy like every type of judaism has good and bad
Kitten219: teh good outweighs the bad
Kitten219: and it's the best system for me
hoosierdubsguy: you can choose, we as humans have free will, you can choose what you wish to do with your life, whether it is becoming a rabbi or falling in line with the orthodox faith, the choice is yours
Kitten219: and i choose orthodoxy
Kitten219: the community is what did it
Kitten219: in reform communities, shabbat ends afetr friday night services
Kitten219: here we go to houses for meals
Kitten219: and sing all afternoon
Kitten219: and people learn toegther in chevruta after work
Kitten219: and it's close knit
Kitten219: and i belong
hoosierdubsguy: and study torah and talmud when they're not partying it down
Kitten219: riiiiiight
Kitten219: well
Kitten219: actually
Kitten219: we do party
hoosierdubsguy: (well, to use a loose term)
Kitten219: yeah
hoosierdubsguy: i wouldn't use the term "party it down", but rather gather for meals and song
Kitten219: you just did use the term
Kitten219: lol
Kitten219: we do drink, you know
hoosierdubsguy: it was the most concise term i could think of
Kitten219: we have fun
hoosierdubsguy: it's a tradition to imbibe...we're told on shabbat to drink
Kitten219: it's min-hag
hoosierdubsguy: thank you
Kitten219: and it's purim
Kitten219: not shabbat
Kitten219: shabbat is just kiddush
hoosierdubsguy: we're supposed to drink until we can't tell the difference between haman and mordecai if i remember correctly
Kitten219: yes
Kitten219: but it'snot halacha
Kitten219: whatever
hoosierdubsguy: or is take a drink/shot when you hear the name of haman....or both?
Kitten219: it's just really to drink more than you normally do. you don;t have to get plastered, and i didn;t even drink on purim
Kitten219: it's funny
hoosierdubsguy: you don't seem like the type to drink...at least not often
Kitten219: of all the halachot non-orthodox jews know, it's always the minhag of drinking on purim, which isn;t even required. just a tradition
Kitten219: and you'd be surprised
Kitten219: i have halff a bacardi breezer in my room right now
Kitten219: and i've ben drunk twice this year
hoosierdubsguy: what flavour?
Kitten219: lemon
Kitten219: not that it matters
hoosierdubsguy: i was just curious
Kitten219: see f i were curious about something it would be about the fact that i'm shomer
Kitten219: not what flavor bacardi i have
Kitten219: it's probably already flat
hoosierdubsguy: shomer n'giyah?
Kitten219: lol
Kitten219: yes
hoosierdubsguy: i see
Kitten219: lol
Kitten219: you never would have expected that, right?
hoosierdubsguy: i figured if you were orthodox you were gonna be shomer n'giyah
Kitten219: not all orthodox jews are
hoosierdubsguy: but i figured based on conversation...
Kitten219: lol
Kitten219: i guess i do sound extremist
Kitten219: i really am not
hoosierdubsguy: not extremist, just devoted
Kitten219: ah
hoosierdubsguy: yeah
He sounds like he's disappoined in the fact that I'm not going to be a Rabbi. Let me ask further....
And by the way, Nomi, my Talmud teacher,found out that I can knit, because I do it as a habit, not just for making things, and I'm not using/giving away/selling anything I make till after the 9 days. Rock on!
